Car List

"Jdrentarol" (jdrentarol) 02/11/2016 at 09:28 • Filed to: 944

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I have some questions:

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1. Is this car list good?

1st Car- 1984 Porsche 944 NA

2nd Car- 1993 Mazda RX-7

Any problems with the cars on the list?

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2a. Is the 944 a good car?

2b. Is it just the ECU and timing belt that is a problem?

2c. Is it cheap?

2d. Is it enjoyable, or frustrating?

2e. Is it a good idea to get a 944 for under $3k? I got a good deal on one, and the only reason it’s so cheap it because the paint is absolute shit. Total shit. Like, murky black. Like, this level of shit, but even worse.

So yea, gonna replace the paint

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Thanks for helping me out. I am thinking of getting a 944 NA as a first car, and an RX-7 as a second as you can tell, but is it a good decision?

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 09:36

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How old are you?

Echo51 > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 09:37

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Have a daily driver and one or both of those as projects. I assume you have all the gear to play mechanic on your car-to-be, or atleast a place?

Jdrentarol > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper 02/11/2016 at 09:38

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15

Jdrentarol > Echo51 02/11/2016 at 09:39

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No gear, but I do have a dedicated Porsche shop in mind. That’s actually the place that’s selling me the 944 NA.

Sam > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 09:39

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I’d say you need a reliable second car.

944's aren’t inherently unreliable, but they are a German car, so anytime something does break, it usually puts the car out of commission for >a few days.

RX7's also aren’t extremely unreliable, but when they break, they break .

Also, be sure to manage your expectations with the 944. For sub-3k, you should expect at least a few mechanical problems.

Jdrentarol > Sam 02/11/2016 at 09:42

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Well, the shop said the engine is in amazing condition, it’s just the goddamn paint that’s makin’ it a cheap buy. And besides, RX-7's are gorgeous as hell, so, gonna get it. I’m just worried about the 944's ECU and timing belt. I’m gonna go over the service records to be sure the ECU has had a recent replacement, and the timing belt too.

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 09:42

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Yea, you need a reliable daily first, like AK-47 level of reliability. Having a project car at your age would be a major distraction, not counting the costs involved. I know Im not your dad, but its sound advice..

Jdrentarol > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper 02/11/2016 at 09:44

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Yea, and that’s why I wanna get a 944. I heard they are reliable, and besides, if it breaks, I can just fix it over the weekend and ride my bike to school. If it’s a totally bad idea- Civic time.

Aaron M - MasoFiST > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 09:52

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In case it wasn’t clear from other commenters, neither of those cars will work as your only car, period.

I am very much in favor of a first car being something to wrench on, maybe even a bit of a beater, but even if you buy something old enough that it’ll probably break, you should buy something that you can either fix or afford to get fixed when it does. Both the 944 and the FD are a tad highstrung, hard to find parts for, and not easy to work on in any practical way.

Ultimately, used car prices follow the laws of supply and demand, so when something is cheap it’s cheap for a reason. 944s are cheap because for the amount of work they require they can be hard to justify against something more reliable and equally rewarding (E30 comes to mind). FDs...FDs aren’t all that cheap. The cheapest one I found was ten grand (and it looked beyond sketchy), but they trade between $15 and $25k, which is a bargain to the right people and stupid to the other 95% of the population. As a comparison, I just bought a BMW 128i with 35,000 miles on it for $15k. Is it as nimble as an FD RX-7? No, but it’s significantly more reliable, more comfortable, gets better gas mileage, is only slightly slower in practical terms (0-60 in 6 secs instead of 5.5.), and it has a better stereo. A bugeye WRX would be about equally as reliable as the 944 (though with some research you can still find good ones), but faster, more comfortable, and easier to work on.

Jdrentarol > Aaron M - MasoFiST 02/11/2016 at 09:56

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One problem with the bugeye WRX-

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 09:56

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Lol get a civic first, no one judges a gearhead based on their very first car. Also when your older you’ll have more monies to do stuff, which is way more rewarding then scraping by in your teens. They like to break at the most in opportune times. That said Im not aware of how your cash flow works, and how much your parents are willing to fund you projects. But trust me project cars are money pits like you wouldn’t believe..not counting the time you invest, and at 15 that time should be invested else were...

Christ, I sound old..

Jdrentarol > Aaron M - MasoFiST 02/11/2016 at 09:58

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Also, I don’t care that the WRX is faster and more comfy, the 944 has a hatchback which can store my bike well, and it looks much better in my opinion. Both of those cars listed above are gorgeous, and somewhat good.

Aaron M - MasoFiST > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 10:03

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Gorgeous is a good quality for cars that will be immobile in the driveway for 60-80% of the time. Same with storing a bicycle, which will be your actual mode of transportation.

Jdrentarol > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper 02/11/2016 at 10:03

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Yea, a civic would be nice, but it would have to be old- easier to wrench on, and I would take out everything to make it lighter. No camber, no matte hood, no suspension kits, no rice, just weight reduction for better MPG and some more speed. But I love the 944 too much to abandon it....

Jdrentarol > Aaron M - MasoFiST 02/11/2016 at 10:05

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I am actually thinking of getting a motorcycle.... specifically this one:

http://countryhill.com/Used-2012-Othe…

A Ural Ypan. I can transport my friends (even though I have none, but I can make some with that WWII paintjob), and it’s a Ural, so repairing it is a snap.

Echo51 > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 10:06

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So long as you’re prepared/have the cash to shell out for the eventual shop visit, go for it.

BigBlock440 > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper 02/11/2016 at 10:08

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Nothing wrong with a project car at 15. By the time you’re actually able to drive it you should have enough time to fix whatever needed to be. A more reliable DD is still a good idea of course, but high school is probably the best time to have an unreliable car. For most, you’ve got nowhere you absolutely have to be, parents have cars and they’re used to driving you around, friends have cars, and the schools provide you with transportation.

Aaron M - MasoFiST > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 10:10

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In terms of motorcycles, you’d need a truck, maybe you could put one in the back of a Suburban. In fact, Ural with sidecar would exceed the GVWR of a 944 (about 3500 lbs) before the driver even got inside.

Sam > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 10:11

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Have you tried putting your bike in the 944? Because mine won’t fit in my 924, which has the same capacity, unless I took off the handlebars. It’s a very shallow space.

Jdrentarol > Sam 02/11/2016 at 10:13

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My bike has those curved handlebars, and 21 in. rims, so I hope it will fit.

Bengal55 > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 10:20

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You very well may have picked the two worst options for a young guy to get into as a first, and only vehicle. As everyone else seems to have said, they are great cars *if* you don’t have to rely on them daily. As far as repair bills go, considering you’ll not be doing all your own work, a Porsche of any vintage is going to eat what little money you’ll have.

Here’s my advice, and this is coming from someone who has more cars than brains and money. Look for something reliable (Corolla, Civic, Accord, Etc) and live with it for a while. You’re young, you’ll want to modify it. Resist the urge, keep it in good condition until you’re older. When you have a stable job, out of college (if you intend to go) and have some disposable income, them buy a project car. The 944 or the (heh) RX-7 or whatever suits your fancy then. At that point it won’t matter as much as you’ll have a second, reliable, vehicle to use while your pet project is out of commission.

The exception would be if you can afford two vehicles now, a reliable daily, and a fun toy.

Now.. the cool factor. Civic’s, Corolla’s, and all that jazz aren’t the most exciting vehicles. If you want something reliable and still cool/fun then look around for something else. 4 Runners, trucks, 3 series, Lexus’, Jeeps and what not are also options.

Trust me, I’m attracted to odd and unreliable. If you’re gonna be bit by that bug, do it when you have a stable income.

jasmits > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 10:23

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Can you rely on your parents for rides or access to another car if you need it occasionally? Even though my e36 has been very reliable for a 20 year old car they’ve saved my bacon a few times getting me to work/school when work on the car took me longer than expected. The 944 should generally be reliable enough but any old german car can screw you from time to time.

Jdrentarol > Bengal55 02/11/2016 at 10:27

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I do want to modify it, but not in a ricey way. Putting some recaro seats could lighten it up a bit, and replacing the hatch would make it much, much, much lighter. Plexiglass would do well, I suppose. Carbon fiber body panels would be a good investment, but no bare carbon fiber. I want it to look exactly like a 944, but be much lighter, so better MPG and faster. No stupid spoiler, the rubber one is enough, and maybe some rally lights, but that’s tasteful and a good idea, right? Of course, a Gulf paint job would be necessary for being a true car guy. And the RX-7? Carbon fiber body panels, lightweight seats, everything to make it a better car without affecting the looks AT ALL.

Jdrentarol > jasmits 02/11/2016 at 10:29

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I have a racing bike, so I don’t need a ride to and from school. Basically, I have everything I need in a 20-mile radius- friends, dealerships (gotta see that 4c somewhere) and school. And yes, 20 miles is not a lot for me.

wiffleballtony > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 10:37

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They’re good cars but also not very reliable.

wiffleballtony > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 10:39

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If you can afford real carbon fiber panels why are you putting it on a 944?

Jdrentarol > wiffleballtony 02/11/2016 at 10:40

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Because I love the 944?

Stapleface > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 10:43

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Is that car list good? Sure.

Is it smart for someone without a 6 figure salary, a third reliable car, and master tech capabilities? No.

As has already been mentioned, this list is a horrible idea for someone who’s just starting out. Get a car that won’t leave you stranded, and leave that car alone. You don’t need to add lightness to it to enjoy it. And the MPG increase you might see is negligible at best, unless you somehow drop like 500lbs. And that just isn’t happening.

And if you were to drop 500 lbs out of a car, it would be beyond miserable to drive because it would be so ungodly noisy and uncomfortable that you would never want to take it anywhere.

wiffleballtony > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 10:45

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You do realize that these panels are a couple grand apeice? You’re going to spend much much more than the car is worth for what is ultimately not going to be an amazing weight savings. You’d be better off with a decent 996 by the time you’re done. As many have said, neither of your choices are good first cars.

Jdrentarol > wiffleballtony 02/11/2016 at 11:03

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Ok then, aluminium panels? Aluminium is about 8-13x cheaper than carbon fiber (per pound)

wiffleballtony > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 11:15

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That’s a cheaper alternative but then how much weight are you really saving over OEM panels?

Jdrentarol > wiffleballtony 02/11/2016 at 11:33

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Ehh... dunno...

wiffleballtony > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 11:46

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From my experience, maybe a couple pounds per panel. Maybe you’ll save 50 by the time you’re done. It’s one of the last things I would do in pursuit of adding lightness.

Ultimately, it’s your call and your money. If you really want to get a 944 go for it. I would suggest looking up K-Rolls experience with his 944 on Oppo, it’s worth a look.

Jdrentarol > wiffleballtony 02/11/2016 at 12:01

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I am already. K-Roll’s a pretty cool guy

Slant6 > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 12:10

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You’re a young idiot. You have no idea what you’re talking about and no idea what you’re getting yourself into.

Granted all of us were the same way. When I was your age (only about 4 years ago) I wanted an MG midget, or to just be allowed to drive my inherited 1965 Dodge Dart to school. Both were horrible ideas for a daily (although the Dodge is my primary backup car).

Buy a nice pickup truck that can move your bike around and do other car stuff with. You’ll need it when you go to the junkyard for 944 parts. As much as I love interesting cars I also enjoy driving. You can’t drive if your car doesn’t. There’s reason we’re all telling you the same thing.

Also forget the aftermarket fenders/ weight reduction. You won’t see a huge difference without extra power or a race track where it actually matters.

Bengal55 > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 13:46

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Gonna be honest with ya here, this persuit of lightness, the Recaro’s, the carbon fiber, the hatch.. all this is rather pointless for a daily driver. You’re going to spend hundreds (more likely thousands) of dollars to shave off (as another said) about 50lbs to get what.. half a mile per gallon better and just a bit faster?

What it sounds like to me you’re trying to do is build a race car without saying you want to build a race car. If you’re intentions are to track the car later in life then I’d worry about making the modifications to it then.

Don’t get too ahead of yourself here, worry about keeping it running before you start investing money in mods for the sake of mods.

Oh and about “Rice” - What people don’t get is that “Rice” is basically just doing unnecessary mods to a car that don’t provide any real benefit that are usually done cheaply/shoddily. If the car is intended for the track then any necessary mods are acceptable. If you’re putting racing seats in a otherwise stock DD then.. well you get where I’m going with this.

At the end of the day it’s your money, your car, your taste, and your time. If you want to invest all the money into carbon fiber, aluminum, seats, custom paint job et al, then have at it.

Ryanator122 > Jdrentarol 02/11/2016 at 15:58

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Lol slow your roll for a minute dude.

Having a project car to sit in the yard and tinker with is cool. Then you get in your Civic/Camry/Focus and drive to school and do cool stuff with your friends and take girls to lunch and crap.

It’s REAL embarrassing to have your cool car make funny noises or break down with people in the car.

I had my eye on a E36 M3 as my first car, told everyone why it’s such a great idea, and then ended up with my Camry instead. The first moment it acted up (spun bearing) I drove it to death and used it as an excuse to get a “cool” car, a Mazda 6s(because 4-door says practical college guy the way a BMW just wouldn’t . Every time it shuddered into second, every time I had to fill the tank (frequently), every time I wrote an exorbitant check for the insurance (even with a clean record), every time the damned oil light flickered for no reason (turns out there was a reason), every time it lost compression on hot days, every time the display went all wonky, every time the trim rattled around... I HATED IT. I wanted nothing more than my Camry back. I eventually sold it for much less than I paid for it (in addition to sinking close to $1200 in work) and barely scraped enough together to get the Camry going again.

Don't do what I did. Get a reasonably reliable car and modify it a bit. I would kill for an 03 Focus hatch with the 2.3 Duratec. Sooooo many parts.. Save the 944 for when you have a job or you're at school and don't need to look very hard for a ride

Jdrentarol > Ryanator122 02/12/2016 at 09:32

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OK, then how about buying a cool AND reliable car- a Mazdaspeed3?

Ryanator122 > Jdrentarol 02/12/2016 at 15:16

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Oh so you mean a 4-door focus with more parts to break (turbo and associated bits) that’s been flogged since day one?

No. Still go for the Focus someone’s grandma bought because she “Still likes the standard transmission and needs a little runner” for like 1/3 the cost.

Ryanator122 > Jdrentarol 02/12/2016 at 15:19

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Your parents/your pocketbook won't like what the insurance runs on a MS3.

Jdrentarol > Ryanator122 02/16/2016 at 09:19

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I’m paying for it, and besides, it can’t be too bad... it’s a 5-door hatchback w/ 4 seats.

Jdrentarol > Ryanator122 02/16/2016 at 09:21

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Fine, so I’ll buy a 2006 Focus, and modify it (no rear seats, no friends, light rims, PZEROs, everything aluminium)

Ryanator122 > Jdrentarol 02/16/2016 at 14:34

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Mine was a 4-door sedan. It was obnoxiously high. Insurance companies know about cars.

Ryanator122 > Jdrentarol 02/16/2016 at 14:39

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That’s a European market focus we didn’t get here. You'll need an older one

The 2.3 will have a PZEV badge on the back.

What's your deal with the lightness? It's not going to make that big of a difference. Any efficiency you gain will be offset by the fact that you've spent thousands in custom bodywork and wheels.

Ryanator122 > Jdrentarol 02/16/2016 at 14:40

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I dare you to call an insurance agent and ask them to give you a quote

Jdrentarol > Ryanator122 02/16/2016 at 15:01

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Lightness= Efficiency, speed, and reliability ( I have heard that it stresses the engine less if the car is lighter )

Jdrentarol > Ryanator122 02/16/2016 at 15:02

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I’m just happy with a hatchback. I’d love a Speed3, and the Focus hatch doesn’t look bad. I just wanna go for lightness

Ryanator122 > Jdrentarol 02/16/2016 at 15:08

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So let’s say you spend $1k on “lighter wheels”.

You’ll save what, 50 pounds at most? Congrats. You’re putting .001 less stress on the engine

Or you could save your $1k and spend it on like... Engine maintenance? A top-end rebuild? And be better off.

Not sure if trolling

Ryanator122 > Jdrentarol 02/16/2016 at 15:10

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Buy a motorcycle then. There’s more to a car than “lightness”. You'd see better efficiency gains from improving aerodynamics, but I'm guessing you won't put an aero-tail on the car.

Jdrentarol > Ryanator122 02/17/2016 at 14:23

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Not trolling, the lighter the better

Jdrentarol > Ryanator122 02/17/2016 at 14:34

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http://countryhill.com/Used-2012-Othe…

Ryanator122 > Jdrentarol 02/17/2016 at 15:28

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Not really.